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Debate on Libertarianism and the Domination of Government by Capitalists

Between the West Coast Libertarian Foundation (WCLF) and Punkerslut

By Punkerslut, Made with Graphics by David Drexler
Image: By Punkerslut, Made with Graphics by David Drexler, CC BY 2.0 License

Date: February 8, 2011

Punkerslut to the West Coast Libertarian Foundation (WCLF)

Info: WCLF Homepage


     There is a contradiction in the Libertarianism in which you preach. You need to go back to Classical Libertarianism, that is, Revolutionary Anarchist-Communism, in the style of the first self-described Libertarian, Joseph Dejacques. Instead, as I peruse through your website and your written materials, I see your definition of Libertarian is different from the philosophy of Libertarianism. Vastly different.

     Consider your dualist approach to government: "As long as governments continue to spend a large portion of our economy, we are going to have pay a large portion of our earnings to them. Nothing is free. If governments continue to spend, someone is going to show up at your door asking you to pay." The first point you make is an opposition to government when it spends taxes on food for the hungry, housing for the homeless, and education for the ignorant. These taxes are certainly only available because of the labors by the hungry, homeless, and ignorant -- but, some of this tax money returns to them, in terms of services or goods. This seems to be what you are railing against in one point.

     But, your second point is where the contradiction becomes glaringly obvious: "As for corporations, these are just voluntary groups of people (workers, owners) who believe that the corporate form of business organization makes them better able to deliver what customers want." Have you ever seen a machine gun? Have you ever seen soldiers marching the streets with bayoneted rifles over their shoulders? Have you seen the videos of police shooting into crowds, pictures of the dead, or any of the testimony of the labor movement in Canada or the US? Then, you would clearly know: Capitalists aren't "voluntary groups" -- they have free range to shoot and kill anyone who gets in their way.

     So, wait a minute here... When the working class demands bread from the state, they're to be regarded as parasitic criminals. But, when the Capitalists demand that the tanks, the army, and the battleships fire onto the unions, well, that's just "voluntary" organization. You are aware that Andrew Carnegie had snipers on the roofs of his factories to shoot at workers? You are aware that this practice continues in places like Burma, China, and Africa? And you are aware that this is how you get reduced rates on things like diamonds, electronics, and clothing?

     Even last year, a man in the US was strangled to death by a storeowner, and the police agreed that the man should have been killed. No investigation, no trial, nothing -- just the modern impersonation of a lynch mob, organized by the Capitalist class, to kill the workers. The story's right here: ChicagoBreakingNews.com . You know the police use violence and force to break up the ACTUALLY VOLUNTARY organization of the workers.

     And, I shouldn't have to tell you that the army, the air force, and the navy are nothing but tools of Capitalist oppression. Do you really think you're safer because of the War in Iraq, or the War in Afghanistan? And if you do, then why did the US-UK government set up the Taliban in one, and Saddam Hussein in the other, only decades earlier? It's all about producing a situation where large, multi-national corporations like Halliburton make money off of the dead. The story of "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq was quite hilarious. At that time, it was well-known that the US had already fully supplied the Middle East with nuclear arms. Even the New York Times has reported this one: NYTimes.com .

     It's funny. On one side, the government gives out some pieces of bread to please its starving constituents. "No! That's big, bad government! It's taking away your liberty! Stop them before you have no choice!" you scream and holler. And, on the other side, the government sends 200,000 troops into the Middle East and doesn't leave until more than a half million are dead. To this, you say "It's just a voluntary organization of people." It's not short-sightedness so much as blindness. You imagine there to be force where there is only a helping of it; and when there is mass murder, genocide, and soldiers on the streets hanging union organizers, you say "voluntary organization." Sure, pal. But as long as you're that distantly connected to the streets where the people live, you probably won't be able to reach them.

     Thanks for reading this far. I patiently await a response.

Andy Carloff

Date: February 8, 2011

The West Coast Libertarian Foundation (WCLF) to Punkerslut

Hello Andy,

I'll consider this an unsolicited email unless you find the courtesy to introduce yourself properly and divulge how you found my email and to what writings you are referring. Thank you for your interest in liberty. I look forward to a possible debate.


Date: February 8, 2011

Punkerslut to the West Coast Libertarian Foundation (WCLF)

Hello, Tyler,

     I apologize if I was too forward. The e-mail address was the one for your website, wclf.org. This is the address that your website is registered with, which is clearly available to the public. Also, the section of your website that I was responding to was the only page without a "Under Construction" note. That is, the main page: WCLF.org , which is how I found your e-mail. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings and, again, I apologize for assuming all of this.

     If you're still interested in a "possible debate," please refer to my previous e-mail. Thank you.

Andy Carloff

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