Punkerslut to Beyond the Shades of Gray...
You have changed the way I think. I will no longer lust after men. Instead, I will lust after and rape "young females who have not yet known men by sleeping with them," as god as ordered me. (Numbers 31)
Thank you. You have enlightened me on the holiness of child-rape.
[Five months go by.]
Beyond the Shades of Gray to Punkerslut...
Thought thought I'd at least make the attempt, though I'll admit that I have my doubts after reading your views upon your website:
Beyond the Shades of Gray is not an "anti-gay" web site, but a help-ministry that is available to those who personally desire accurate information about their own unwanted homosexual behaviors. The views expressed there (unlike those of the gay rights activists) are not being forced upon anybody.
Secondly, your synopsis of the passage in Numbers... you just don't get it do you? My friend, while rape may be something that those men did, which is recorded within the biblical passage, rape is certainy not something that God condoned, commanded them to do, or advocated once they had committed the attrocity. Read the whole chapter. You can't take one passage out of context like that, and pretend that you understand the full council and character of God.
And I'm not sure exactly what your "fight" is all about, or from where such apparent internal anger comes from within you, but there's a better and much more peaceful (internally and personally peaceful) way for you to live your life, my brother. You should consider giving God a try rather than being so angry at the concept and false perceptions you have of him, because this one is the only life any of us gets to experience. He gave life to us as a gift and he loves us all. So, my heart and compassion goes out to you for whaterver it is that has so caused you to have such a tragic air of rebellion, at such a very young age. I do hope you find peace one day, so that you might actually enjoy being a part of our human race.
Your "critique" looked at just one verse taken out of context, in Numbers... I'll leave you with an entire passage out of the book of Acts, chapter 17, within its proper context. And know that the passage below is about you! Indeed, it's about us all:
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ ”
I'll be praying for you, brother.
Punkerslut to Beyond the Shades of Gray...
Thanks for writing me now. I'm curious about the description you provide for your website: "Beyond the Shades of Gray is not an 'anti-gay' web site, but a help-ministry that is available to those who personally desire accurate information about their own unwanted homosexual behaviors. The views expressed there (unlike those of the gay rights activists) are not being forced upon anybody." It seems, actually, quite the reverse. The view that marriage is between one man and one woman IS being forced upon many gays today.
Your response is to say that they're trying to force something on you. Like a slave "forcing liberation" onto their master. It is a figurative use of the word "force," when in reality, it means physical force, as in the prisons, the police, the army, etc.. Either way, whether or not you're "forcing your views" onto people does not mean that your website is or is not "anti-gay." I gave that description, because that is the attitude that predominates throughout all of your written material.
Consider a website that helps people change their own "unwanted" eating habits. Wouldn't you call that "an anti-bad diet website"? Naturally, it seems logical. Now, you're trying to help people change their own "unwanted" behaviors, but Homosexuality is not a disease or a health risk any more than Heterosexuality. And, being a personal preference, it may be part of someone's culture.
Now consider that you had a website advocating the same thing, except about helping people "abandon their own unwanted, ethnic-minority culture." You're not "forcing" anything upon anyone, but you're still producing written material that encourages Xenophobia of culture. Why should anyone be encouraged in abandoning a culture or preference just because their society thinks they should? If you believed in tolerance, wouldn't you be doing the opposite, and telling people that they're fine how they are, and that they should learn to love and cherish all of their own inherent characteristics?
Again, if being gay were unhealthy, you might make an argument. But it's definitely not, so long as the same health considerations are taken as with "straight" sex (protection, disease, etc.). Even the culture of native Africans was considered "unhealthy" because they didn't live in polluted cities and barren wastelands. Do you really think those European slavers had the interests of Africans deep in their heart when throwing chains around their hands and ankles? No, probably not. And, I doubt that any such compassion towards gays would be detected in your message, either.
I cited the whole chapter, not a single verse of it. Moses commanded the rape and murder, after he was told by God to conquer the territory of the non-believers. It seems quite clear, more than anything, that god commanded rape. Psalm 139:7 "God has perfect knowledge of us, and all our thoughts and actions are open before him." God knew, by the commands that he gave to Moses, what Moses was going to do. If God had a problem with it, he probably would have said, "Oh, and by the way, if you find teeming masses of children, don't turn them into rape slaves."
Would you say that the upper classes in the United States are largely Christian or not? And would you say, also, that many of them have investments in Asia, Africa, and South America? And would you also say that many of these factories employ children, that many of them are beaten, and that many are even subject to sexual abuse as a disciplinary measure? Then, you understand, I'm not quoting Moses so much about what was happening a while ago, as a reminder that this is what is happening today, with the blessings of all churches. But why not fight a Capitalist system that eats children like this? Apparently, child-rape doesn't count as "christianity's and capitalism's own, personally-unwanted behavior." Nor do you oppose the slavery that church's draw their tithes upon, because this might violate Ephesians 6:5: "slaves, obey your earthly masters, as you would obey the will of christ."
Imagine kidnapping a human being, tying them to a chair, and then torturing them with a scalpel because they refuse to love you. That would be Jesus Christ right there, even though you don't get quite that image of him. Yet, what else is salvation and hell, except a game about how Jesus is going to torture you forever since you never returned his love? As a human being, you would hear such a description and say, "What a madman!" But as a god, you fall to your knees and say, "Oh what a gift of love!"
My friend, there are children being raped, killed, ground to dust, men and women exploited, abused, and beaten, and all of this has the blessings of the Christian movement. Meanwhile, you're so busy with "helping people" not being gay, because that's "charity." Perhaps you understand now. Those of us who love justice cannot afford to be calm.Sincerely, Andy Carloff
Beyond the Shades of Gray to Punkerslut...
Well, I appreciate your civil response, and the fact that you wrote back. We obviously disagree on a number of points there, and that's quite alright with me. It's not because either of us are right or wrong that we will have to agree to disagree. It's simply because you and me approach the topic from two very different starting points, and our own two differing attitudes with what has been true in our own individual life experiences and, to some degree, our individual expectations as well, I suppose. Keep in mind though, that I was also a homosexual at one time. That is the why I approach the topic so very differently than you do. So I certainly contend that indeed I am very compassionate towards the people who engage in homosexual behaviors, because I identify so well with their way of thinking, before I came into this renewed way of thinking about it. Just because you may disagree with the foundations for my concerns for others does not allow you to unequivocally say that I am not a compassionate person. The persons who've been helped and are thankful that I made the information available to them would certainly disagree with you there. But that's fine too. I really don't have any problem disagreeing with you on that point either. I just feel it was overly presumptuous of you to suggest that. And I investigated your "take" on my web site, as I was checking the Google search engine for accuracy recently, in case you were curious about that.
Thanks for responding and letting me know where you're coming from on that. I plan to leave it at that, though, and not address your disagreement from my own site. No reason to, as you are certainly entitled to hold your own opinions there, and my site is not about discrediting other perspectives. I remain quite confident after ten years of doing this that my article speaks very well for itself there, and that it is accomplishing the purpose for which it was originally published, in reaching out to those people who are searching and desire the information located there. And people are usually quite intelligent enough to be able to figure out for themselves that my compassion is genuine, once they begin talking with me about their own struggles with unwanted homosexual behaviors, and past life events that are consistently and strikingly similar to my own. That's no coincidence, by the way. And it says something to me quite revealing about homosexuality, that the gay-rights activists (it seems to me) are consistently trying to hide and avoid talking about, with regard to their own sexual behaviors.
Punkerslut to Beyond the Shades of Gray...
Where did I say you weren't compassionate? Where did I say anything about you? I'm talking about your ideas.
I had one essential suggestion, and that was that you followed a religion that prohibited gay sex as much as it glorified the rape of children. I don't think anything I wrote here was about you personally, but about your own personal ideas. Can't I criticize your ideas as lacking compassion without, at the same time, automatically criticizing you as a person without compassion?
That's funny. I e-mailed you my "take" on your web site last year. It was sent 8/23/2010 with the title "Homosexuality and Numbers" from my gmail address. So, I do appreciate your willingness to research so deep into your own site that you find a criticism about it. But, it was sitting in your e-mail box for months, and it apparently wasn't important until I posted it online.
Then what was the point of e-mailing me after months and months of sitting on my letter? If you don't want to "address my disagreement," then what is the point of sending me these e-mails, telling me that you disagree with me? And how does disagreeing with someone relate to people being entitled to hold their own opinions? Isn't it almost impossible to hold any opinions, unless you disagree with someone?
I've never met a pastor who didn't tell me they were an Atheist before they found god. It's a really old trick. Naturally, given the unimaginative nature of Christian Evangelism, it's not surprising at all that you were once a "Homosexual." I've never met one gay person who ever called themselves Homosexual. Gay, queer, lesbian, etc., but not "Oh, you know, I'm into Homosexuality."
If you could change how you want something, and do it successfully, the psychoanalytic journals would be investigating your technique very closely. Jung and Freud spent their lifetimes studying this matter, and applying it to people who are depressed, suffering from addiction, abusive and dominating behavior, etc., etc.. They struggled with finding a conclusion, after so many years of their existence, but you seem to have found out how to change people.
Are you changing people from abusive to compassionate? From socially unconscious to socially aware? From ignorant to thoughtful? No, no, none of those. You're changing the form that draws their affections. Perhaps I ought to simply say, that I doubt you're capable of really changing anyone, just as I am doubtful that this change could be anything meaningful.